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if you think the fiscal cliff is a problem, this kind of hostage taking around the debt ceiling is multiples of that and the president is, i think, very correct to stand extremely firm and be extremely clear that he's not going to play that game. >> karen, the politics of this are frightening for the republicans. the latest polling does not support their stance. and given that they spent four years obstructing this president and failed, why do it again from the outset of his second term? >> well, you know, there's good news for the republicans, martin. karl rove's group, crossroads gps is going to spend some money for some ads, and we know that's a successful strategy in convincing the american people. >> that's good news. >> i can't pass that chance up to do that. >> i understand. >> i think part of what's so important about the polling, we talked about this on monday and the quinnipiac polling you were showing, the republicans have had time to make their arguments and it's not working. more people are moving towards siding with the president. they believe it's the president and democrats w
if you think the fiscal cliff is a problem, this kind of hostage taking around the debt ceiling is multiples of that and the president is, i think, very correct to stand extremely firm and be extremely clear that he's not going to play that game. >> karen, the politics of this are frightening for the republicans. the latest polling does not support their stance. and given that they spent four years obstructing this president and failed, why do it again from the outset of his second term?...
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the potential of a debt ceiling crisis again in january, as soon as january, the fiscal cliff, the payroll tax extension, the unemployment, long-term unemployment benefits which woulds also expire if they do nothing, they will do something, but there's so much uncertainty, a lot of pent up demand and hiring that could give us a real spurt if this thing gets resolved in a good way? >> i think there is. in fact, there's a few interesting signs inside this report of exactly that. if you look at the industries that sell mostly to consumers like retail trade, like leisure and hospitality, they had very big gains in jobs in last month and the month before that. that suggests that consumers themselves are not thinking much about the fiscal cliff or letting it affect their plans. but the industries that deal a lot with businesses, those, for example, that produce machinery, other long lived durable goods, those in construction, might be building houses or office buildings, they're laying people off. if we end up going over the cliff it's hard to believe that consumer confidence will hang in there
the potential of a debt ceiling crisis again in january, as soon as january, the fiscal cliff, the payroll tax extension, the unemployment, long-term unemployment benefits which woulds also expire if they do nothing, they will do something, but there's so much uncertainty, a lot of pent up demand and hiring that could give us a real spurt if this thing gets resolved in a good way? >> i think there is. in fact, there's a few interesting signs inside this report of exactly that. if you look...
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they don't think the fiscal cliff is actually the marker of that. they think the debt ceiling is. that's made simply the ability to come to whatever deal they are going to eventually come to in the next couple of weeks as opposed to the next two or three months, a lot weaker. >> there are plenty of republicans concerned, particularly the economist side that these negotiations have huge ramifications for the american economy, as well, and global ramifications. the markets will respond badly if we go over the fiscal cliff. foreign investors will respond badly if america goes over the fiscal cliff at the end of this year. there's a sense, i'm hearing, increasing pessimism among republicans that say we can't afford to have these kinds of talks, even the stalling process doesn't look good for the country. >> there's other incentives that are bringing both republicans, especially the white house, to the table with respect to the fiscal cliff. we did reporting on this. >> your bosom buddy. >> yeah, but there's stimulus the white house wants as a result of the fiscal cliff deal. they don'
they don't think the fiscal cliff is actually the marker of that. they think the debt ceiling is. that's made simply the ability to come to whatever deal they are going to eventually come to in the next couple of weeks as opposed to the next two or three months, a lot weaker. >> there are plenty of republicans concerned, particularly the economist side that these negotiations have huge ramifications for the american economy, as well, and global ramifications. the markets will respond...
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cliff negotiations drag on in washington, wall street seems to be basically unphased. the dow jones has slipped only about 200 points since the election. why isn't wall street more on edge itself? william cohen is the author of "money and power, hold goldman sachs came to rule the world." the labor department came out with the applications for unemployment aid saying it fell sharply for the last week and stocks basically opened flat this morning as we've seen. some of that has to do more with europe than it does with washington. but what is your reasoning for why wall street hasn't displayed more of an impact from this fiscal cliff nonsense? >> thomas, what wall street hates most of all is uncertainty and it's counterintuitive, there's actually plenty of certainty now. what's going to be certain is taxes are going up. either we go off the cliff or the curb and then taxes rise for everybody and then maybe they get repealed for the middle class and others or we reach a deal and taxes go up for the wealthiest 2% and everybody else breathes a sigh of relief. there's some $
cliff negotiations drag on in washington, wall street seems to be basically unphased. the dow jones has slipped only about 200 points since the election. why isn't wall street more on edge itself? william cohen is the author of "money and power, hold goldman sachs came to rule the world." the labor department came out with the applications for unemployment aid saying it fell sharply for the last week and stocks basically opened flat this morning as we've seen. some of that has to do...
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we have $16 trillion in debt. back to the fiscal cliff that we went by. >> it jumped the shark. i'm cutting you all off. carole, abbey and charles. thank you. you have been one of the liveliest panels that i have had since yesterday. astronaut marketly up next. [ nurse ] i'm a hospice nurse. britta olsen is my patient. i spend long hours with her checking her heart rate, administering her medication, and just making her comrtable. one night britta told me about a tradition in denmark, "when a person dies," she said, "someone must open the window so the soul can depart." i smiled and squeezed her hand. "not tonight, britta. not tonight." [ female announcer ] to nurses everywhere, thank you, from johnson & johnson. we believe the more you know, the better you trade. so we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, in-branch seminars at over 500 locations, where our dedicated support teams help you know more so your money can do more. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our teams have the information you want when you need it. it's another re
we have $16 trillion in debt. back to the fiscal cliff that we went by. >> it jumped the shark. i'm cutting you all off. carole, abbey and charles. thank you. you have been one of the liveliest panels that i have had since yesterday. astronaut marketly up next. [ nurse ] i'm a hospice nurse. britta olsen is my patient. i spend long hours with her checking her heart rate, administering her medication, and just making her comrtable. one night britta told me about a tradition in denmark,...
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we've got the debate about the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling and we're talking in the trillions. before you can even get to the trillions, if you can't stop stuff like this, does the american public ever believe that washington is going to get its act together if you can't stop this 100,000 here, million there, all, of course, adds up to billions. if we can't stop the zombies, taxpayers paying for the zombies, how can we ever tackle medicare and social security? [laughter] megyn: that's the thing that makes people upset, julie. all right, if you're going to increase my taxes to help pay down the debt, help people in need, that's one thing, but if i'm going to be paying for zombies or for santa to ride the $250,000 sleigh, i object. >> i'm a little embarrassed. can you imagine being an employee and having to pretended to be a zombie? >> those were actors. >> i don't know about that. [laughter] i think they may have been dhs employees dressed up. charles is right, thanksgiving a little ri -- this is a little ridiculous. i understand what they're trying to do, they're trying to get
we've got the debate about the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling and we're talking in the trillions. before you can even get to the trillions, if you can't stop stuff like this, does the american public ever believe that washington is going to get its act together if you can't stop this 100,000 here, million there, all, of course, adds up to billions. if we can't stop the zombies, taxpayers paying for the zombies, how can we ever tackle medicare and social security? [laughter] megyn: that's the...
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>> let me add in here, judge, to your point that no congress has ever used the fiscal cliff. usual through debt ceiling as a bargaining point, which is what happened last year. this never dealt with. >> what would happen if the congress said no? the president would be forced to operate the federal government in money available to him. >> nobody said that to ronald reagan or the first george busher second george bush. >> democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling. >> but nobody has ever, ever stopped it and made it a point of then fiscal negotiation. only happened once. >> we have never been in treacherous, perilous fiscal circumstances as today. >> bret: top senate republican calling it quits was here on the set with us. the all-stars weigh in on that. surprising development next. initiated. neural speeds increasing to 4g lte. brain upgrading to a quad-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood coul
>> let me add in here, judge, to your point that no congress has ever used the fiscal cliff. usual through debt ceiling as a bargaining point, which is what happened last year. this never dealt with. >> what would happen if the congress said no? the president would be forced to operate the federal government in money available to him. >> nobody said that to ronald reagan or the first george busher second george bush. >> democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling....
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cliff and using the debt ceiling to force concessions. they, you know, used cliche they kicked the can down the road to the super committee and that blew up and now this and talk of a two-prong solution and then dealing with entitlements next year. it does seem like we just keep making, you know, small incremental decisions and then putting off somethingç bigger r six months, a year, 18 months. when will the insanity stop on this? >> yeah. i mean, the thing is -- >> 300 calories! >> stop the insanity! >> that was -- that was susan powter. i knew we talked about it before the show and didn't know we would play it. when will we listen and stop the insanity? feel free to answer. >> yeah. look. you know, it's a real dynamic in place where it takes the horrible things to happen, a risk of a recession, of a debt ceiling, you know, defaulting on u.s. debt, it takes the really dramatic things to force action but it gets back to the issue of where are the power levers and the forcing mechanisms to make the government deal with the deficit? that'
cliff and using the debt ceiling to force concessions. they, you know, used cliche they kicked the can down the road to the super committee and that blew up and now this and talk of a two-prong solution and then dealing with entitlements next year. it does seem like we just keep making, you know, small incremental decisions and then putting off somethingç bigger r six months, a year, 18 months. when will the insanity stop on this? >> yeah. i mean, the thing is -- >> 300 calories!...
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white house wants at the very least a long-term extension of the debt ceiling in any fiscal cliff deal. the republicans now see the debt ceiling as their own leverage. they're demanding a steep price to include it. who anyways if obama will ultimately go along with something like this. but it is a talk that there is still one crucial way he's at the mercy of republicans. it leaves him with a tough choice. to pay their price in entitlements or play debt ceiling chicken with them again. okay. does it for "the cycle" today.
white house wants at the very least a long-term extension of the debt ceiling in any fiscal cliff deal. the republicans now see the debt ceiling as their own leverage. they're demanding a steep price to include it. who anyways if obama will ultimately go along with something like this. but it is a talk that there is still one crucial way he's at the mercy of republicans. it leaves him with a tough choice. to pay their price in entitlements or play debt ceiling chicken with them again. okay....
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the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling, are they connected? >> the white house wants them to be connected. they actually think if neck get a deal decoupling the bush tax cuts, having entitlement reform in dealing with the debt ceiling that is getting a raise and not having to worry about it for another couple of years, that's what they want. house republicans have indicated that, look, they actually might want it to kick the can down the road, make a deal on taxes but kick it down the road where they have more leverage. president obama was asked about that earlier this week and said he doesn't want to play the debt ceiling game anymore. that's where republicans have more leverage than then do on other matters. >> all right. senior political editor mark murray, have a great weekend, sir. >> i want to bring in congressman peter welch from vermont. good to see you again. talked to you last weekend on msnbc. at that point you told me that you thought there was a 50/50 shot we'd go off the so-called fiscal cliff. today speaker boehner said talks we
the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling, are they connected? >> the white house wants them to be connected. they actually think if neck get a deal decoupling the bush tax cuts, having entitlement reform in dealing with the debt ceiling that is getting a raise and not having to worry about it for another couple of years, that's what they want. house republicans have indicated that, look, they actually might want it to kick the can down the road, make a deal on taxes but kick it down the road...
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the real attention will be on this massive, $60.3 trillion debt, this fiscal cliff. but, most importantly, this debt crisis next year. i'm not talking about what's going to happen in february or january. what i want to talk about is how do we solve this problem? how do we get the speaker? and the president actually opened up that back door. they're sitting there making back room deals. open up and let the american people see what's going on. i want to see what's going on. they won't tell either side what the deal-making is going on. i don't think that's the way to make policy. >> now, as you said, you and i may not agree. we've debated on this show, though you've always come on. are you saying that you believe that speaker boehner has a score card and is punishing you and three others for standing up and voting for what you believe to be right? >> that is apparently the case. we wrote a letter to the speaker and i think if you read the language of the letter, you walk through all of the washington and you see oh, yes, there was a score card and we were graded a certa
the real attention will be on this massive, $60.3 trillion debt, this fiscal cliff. but, most importantly, this debt crisis next year. i'm not talking about what's going to happen in february or january. what i want to talk about is how do we solve this problem? how do we get the speaker? and the president actually opened up that back door. they're sitting there making back room deals. open up and let the american people see what's going on. i want to see what's going on. they won't tell either...
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>> yes, do i. >> so no agreement on fiscal cliff, no agreement on debt ceiling, no agreement on this either? >> that's because they are obstructionists. they've turned the win into a partisan political instrument. they've turned the weather into a partisan political instrument. we have a solution to thisç 37e have introduced a discharge petition. we think that we shouldn't be holding the middle class hostage. everyone agrees the first $250,000 in income should receive a tax increase. i believe it should be higher in some areas like long island. but i'm not telling to tell somebody making $130,000 won't get a tax cut until somebody at $300,000 gets theirs. let's just vote today, tomorrow o a bill to give people a tax cut up to the $250,000, we offered a discharge petition. we need 40 republicans to sign that petition, get this out to a vote, put brakes on going over the cliff. >> congressman, thank you. >>> next, hillary can, but will she? stay with us. music is a universal language. but when i was in an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own w
>> yes, do i. >> so no agreement on fiscal cliff, no agreement on debt ceiling, no agreement on this either? >> that's because they are obstructionists. they've turned the win into a partisan political instrument. they've turned the weather into a partisan political instrument. we have a solution to thisç 37e have introduced a discharge petition. we think that we shouldn't be holding the middle class hostage. everyone agrees the first $250,000 in income should receive a tax...
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going over the fiscal cliff doesn't mean your taxes go up, it means programs and services that touch virtually every aspect of american life are downsized. good morning, everyone. i'm kristine romans. america can't afford itself. a long-term debt and deficit problems, and these are the folks who have to fix it. how close are they? >> i think we're going over the cliff. >> we can't sit here and try to figure out what works for them. >> we look forward to the time when they are specific. >> they need to be more specific. >> they have to be willing to come to the table with specifics. >> we've not had any discussion and specifics with this president about the real problem. >> we need a response from the white house. we can't sit here and negotiate with ourselves. >> i will not play that game. >> further apart than ever. you've heard endless arguing about higher taxes on the rich. let's set that aside and talk about the sequester the budget wonk word for a thing that will touch every american. $1.2 trillion in automatic budget cuts over the next decade, 100 billion next year alone, half
going over the fiscal cliff doesn't mean your taxes go up, it means programs and services that touch virtually every aspect of american life are downsized. good morning, everyone. i'm kristine romans. america can't afford itself. a long-term debt and deficit problems, and these are the folks who have to fix it. how close are they? >> i think we're going over the cliff. >> we can't sit here and try to figure out what works for them. >> we look forward to the time when they are...
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cliff but alan simpson managed to do it with a video promoting had is campaign to fix the debt. >> stop instagramming your breakfast and tweeting your problems and getting on youtube so you can see gangnam style. ♪ and start using those precious social media skills to go out and sign people up on this baby, three people a week, let it grow, and don't forget take part or get taken apart. by these old ones will clean out the treasury before you get there. ♪ >> [ inaudible ]. >> the lasso again and then the horseback. horse horse. the cowboys ride. >> it made my day. i had to share it with you. chris cizilla an msnbc contributor and managing editor of post politics.com and susan page, washington bureau chief for "usa today." hello. alan simpson never fails. >> i was instagraming, andrea. i was busy instagraming. >> chris, maybe this do broke through. put him on the road, have him go door to door. >> my favorite part of the video which i have watched approximately 1,000 times is when he says at the end, so another lasso then. >> and he is a man who knows his lassos. cody, wyoming. chris
cliff but alan simpson managed to do it with a video promoting had is campaign to fix the debt. >> stop instagramming your breakfast and tweeting your problems and getting on youtube so you can see gangnam style. ♪ and start using those precious social media skills to go out and sign people up on this baby, three people a week, let it grow, and don't forget take part or get taken apart. by these old ones will clean out the treasury before you get there. ♪ >> [ inaudible ]....
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cliff and cut the national debt. the 81-year-old simpson went "gangnam style" to make his point. ♪ >> i have a bum knee. horse, horse. ride the horse. >> senator, thank you for that. and that's your morning dish of "scrambled politics." and now for a look at your national weather, let's turn to bill karins. he has your weather channel forecast. >> the best part is the underwater robot for a place that doesn't have water. >> maybe it's a pool. >> yes. >> and they need to inspect it. >> counter-terrorism measures in the backyard. you never know. good morning, everyone. getting out the door this morning, it's very cold up in new england. tell you what, the lack of snow is really becoming a slightly alarming especially if you have any interest in snowy weather recreation or skiing or ice skating or maybe you like to go snowmobiling. the northern half of the country is sparse. 7% of the country has snow cover. most of that is the high elevations in the rockies and northern rockies. it's about as low as it gets. last yea
cliff and cut the national debt. the 81-year-old simpson went "gangnam style" to make his point. ♪ >> i have a bum knee. horse, horse. ride the horse. >> senator, thank you for that. and that's your morning dish of "scrambled politics." and now for a look at your national weather, let's turn to bill karins. he has your weather channel forecast. >> the best part is the underwater robot for a place that doesn't have water. >> maybe it's a pool....
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the real concern is shifting or will shift from the fiscal cliff to the debt limit. it's not at all clear that the republicans will agree to including a debt limit increase in that kind of package. if they don't, we may get past december 31st only to find ourselves with a big problem in february or march. >> the obama administration, the white house has been very clear, they will not sign anything, even to get past december 31st. that doesn't include a debt ceiling of some sort. so do you think they can hold firm on that if republicans offer them a package that doesn't include the debt ceiling? >> this is where i think the tension is now arising, which is even if you have some agreement over the tax rates which will jam the republicans a bit, can you jam them on the debt limit also. i think the concern will be an administration overstepping or overreaching and trying to jam a debt limit increase, especially the kinds that are being discussed now. i'm all in favor of getting rid of the debt limit. it makes no sense from a technical perspective. from a policy perspecti
the real concern is shifting or will shift from the fiscal cliff to the debt limit. it's not at all clear that the republicans will agree to including a debt limit increase in that kind of package. if they don't, we may get past december 31st only to find ourselves with a big problem in february or march. >> the obama administration, the white house has been very clear, they will not sign anything, even to get past december 31st. that doesn't include a debt ceiling of some sort. so do you...
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. >> is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. >> alan simpson co-chair of the president's debt commission, says both sides are making a high stakes gamble. >> when you have leaders of parties and people of the administration saying, i think it will be to the advantage of the democrats to go off the cliff, i think it will be advantage to the republicans to go off the cliff, or the president to go off the cliff, that's like betting your country. there's stupidity involved in that. >>> syria on the bring. secretary of state hillary clinton holds emergency talks with russia as u.s. officials confirm reports that the syrian military is prepared to launch chemical weapons against its own people. >> we've made it very clear what our position is with respect to chemical weapons and i think we will discuss that and many other aspects. >> the whole world is watching. the whole world is watching very closely. and the president of the united states has made very clear that there will be consequences. >> plus, sharp critici
. >> is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. >> alan simpson co-chair of the president's debt commission, says both sides are making a high stakes gamble. >> when you have leaders of parties and people of the administration saying, i think it will be to the advantage of the democrats to go off the cliff, i think it will be advantage to the republicans to go off the cliff, or the president to go off the cliff, that's like betting...
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>> on the fiscal cliff or the debt ceiling? >> on the debt ceiling. >> i was very interested by your reporting. that you took a really strong position there. i do think the white house has been transformed. both by the experience with the debt ceiling and with the election. i think if they want to stand their ground, i think they can actually do it. i think that that is, in fact, possible. can they? you know, we'll see. they seem a lot tougher now than they were last time around. don't you think? >> they sound very tough now. chrystia freeland of thomson, and author of "the plutocrats." >>> i promised you, red lobster, olive garden, timely for both, and i will deliver. that is ahead. [ male announcer ] take dayquil... [ ding! ] ...and spend time on the slopes. take alka-seltzer plus cold & cough... [ buzz! ] ...and spend time on the chair. for non-drowsy 6-symptom cold & flu relief. take dayquil. use nyquil d... [ ding! ] ...and get longer nighttime cough relief. use alka-seltzer plus night cold & flu... [ coughs ] [ buzz! ] [
>> on the fiscal cliff or the debt ceiling? >> on the debt ceiling. >> i was very interested by your reporting. that you took a really strong position there. i do think the white house has been transformed. both by the experience with the debt ceiling and with the election. i think if they want to stand their ground, i think they can actually do it. i think that that is, in fact, possible. can they? you know, we'll see. they seem a lot tougher now than they were last time...
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quite frankly, some people in this 2% who call me, they're more worried about the fiscal cliff than they are about rates going up a couple of points." congressman thomas rooney of florida said, "if there are truly real entitlement reforms that are going to be preserve social security and medicare for generations to come, it's going to be difficult for me to oppose higher rates for the rich." president obama and speaker boehner spoke by phone yesterday for the first time in a week. white house press secretary jay carney i find very interesting refused to characterize the conversation. let's bring in congressman chris van hollen of maryland tonight. good to have you with us. >> always good to when with you. >> you bet. are democrats united on this rate issue? we keep hearing it. now that boehner is starting to move a little bit and say that the money is going to come from the wealthy, yet he hasn't identified these reductions, where do democrats stand on rates? is that the bottom line? the rates have to go up? >> the rates have to go up, ed. it's a matter of simple math, as the president h
quite frankly, some people in this 2% who call me, they're more worried about the fiscal cliff than they are about rates going up a couple of points." congressman thomas rooney of florida said, "if there are truly real entitlement reforms that are going to be preserve social security and medicare for generations to come, it's going to be difficult for me to oppose higher rates for the rich." president obama and speaker boehner spoke by phone yesterday for the first time in a...
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he said he would rather go over the fiscal cliff than not to raise tax rates. so obama pushing higher taxes on the top 2%, not for economic reasons but for i'd logical reasons but there is also this obvious fact. obama wants to raise the top rates for political reasons. now that is he wants to force republicans to raise tacks in order to trigger a civil war within the gop and the conservative movement, and in that respect sadly obama is having some success. now so long as this debate is focused not on cutting spending but on raising daxs and revenues with the only question being which taxes, how much revenue, then obama wins. now if obama succeeds in making the argument not about his spending, but about grover norquist, he wins there, too. for republicans, on the other hand, if they can figure out a way to refocus the debate on spending, they win and the country wins. we can't kid ourselves that's correct is not easy to do. obama has the biggest microphone in the land and he also has the media in his hip pocket. all the gop has is control of the house. now it's
he said he would rather go over the fiscal cliff than not to raise tax rates. so obama pushing higher taxes on the top 2%, not for economic reasons but for i'd logical reasons but there is also this obvious fact. obama wants to raise the top rates for political reasons. now that is he wants to force republicans to raise tacks in order to trigger a civil war within the gop and the conservative movement, and in that respect sadly obama is having some success. now so long as this debate is focused...
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and number two, do you believe we're going over the fiscal cliff? what are the implications for our children if we don't get our arms around the zmet redebt? real quick two questions. >> hello? >> maya? maya, are you with me? >> hey, folks. >> unbelievable. two important questions for maya. we're going to get those answers from maya. i really want to get out there what it means for our children because getting our arms around the debt is quite important and whether or not we need to cut medicare. we'll get her answers when we come back. meantime, let's slip in a short break. then we have ranking republican on the senate banking committee, richard shelby in the shohouse. she's goi he's going to be up next on his reaction from the geithner interview. stay with us. busy hour. well, if it isn't mr. margin. mr. margin? don't be modest, bob. you found a better way to pack a bowling ball. that was ups. and who called ups? you did, bob. i just asked a question. it takes a long time to pack a bowling ball. the last guy pitched more ball packers. but you... y
and number two, do you believe we're going over the fiscal cliff? what are the implications for our children if we don't get our arms around the zmet redebt? real quick two questions. >> hello? >> maya? maya, are you with me? >> hey, folks. >> unbelievable. two important questions for maya. we're going to get those answers from maya. i really want to get out there what it means for our children because getting our arms around the debt is quite important and whether or...
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in my view fooling around with the debt ceiling is worse than the fiscal cliff. so you're sort of trading one monster for another. i think it would be, again, absolutely nuts to go there. >> peter, what do you think? >> oh, i don't agree. i think that the fiscal cliff and it is a cliff, on january 1 withholding taxes go up to the tune of $400 billion. >> not necessarily. >> it would have a very negative effect on the economy. according to the legislation they would, jared. >> they would not. >> jared, you have to -- >> let me make a point. the treasury secretary can decide if he or she believes a deal sl imminent not to adjust withholding tables. very important. >> i'm talking about no deal and we go off the cliff. >> we go off and stay off. >> it's $400 billion. we have a lot of things to do with regard to our debt ceiling, and my feeling is no one really believes the united states of america is going to default on its debt even if it lapses. we're dealing with different things. one is real and substantive and the other is psychological. >> i really disagree. >>
in my view fooling around with the debt ceiling is worse than the fiscal cliff. so you're sort of trading one monster for another. i think it would be, again, absolutely nuts to go there. >> peter, what do you think? >> oh, i don't agree. i think that the fiscal cliff and it is a cliff, on january 1 withholding taxes go up to the tune of $400 billion. >> not necessarily. >> it would have a very negative effect on the economy. according to the legislation they would,...
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as a pawn in the fiscal cliff negotiations. >> they see the handwriting on the wall and they're going to have to extend it, and if they don't the whole country will see they were willing to tank the entire economy and give everybody the tax break to give people at the top a bonus. where they're just dead wrong, ed, is thinking they're going to gain leverage over this debt ceiling because the american people are not going to stand for republicans turning right around and threatening to destroy the american economy by having the united states default on its debts. >> don't miss "the ed show" 8:00 p.m. eastern time. >>> there are new details about the stunning military operation and the u.s. navy s.e.a.l. who heroically gave his life to help save a doctor kidnapped by the taliban. nbc's jim has the story. >>> he was a highly decorated navy veteran killed sunday in afghanistan. the s.e.a.l.s set out to rescue an american relief worker dr. dilip joseph kidnapped last week on the road east of kabul. joseph was held hostage at an enemy complex in laghman province. as they approached the comp
as a pawn in the fiscal cliff negotiations. >> they see the handwriting on the wall and they're going to have to extend it, and if they don't the whole country will see they were willing to tank the entire economy and give everybody the tax break to give people at the top a bonus. where they're just dead wrong, ed, is thinking they're going to gain leverage over this debt ceiling because the american people are not going to stand for republicans turning right around and threatening to...
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giev tot face the fiscal cliff that's coming in a couple of weeks. >> so you know what both sides are saying. the president is saying there's no way to make the math work without raising the rates for the top income earners and that the republicans should give in on this. >> yeah, yeah. >> do you think he's right? >> well, i understand that position. that was the position he took during the campaign. but what has to happen in my view, you've got to have everything on the table. yo view to have revenue increases. now, how you get those revenue increases was an item of discussion during the campaign. it are be an item of discussion during the negotiation. i for one think you could get there in way that would promote economic growth by eliminating -- by bronding the tax base, by eliminating loopholes and deductions. the truth of the matter, fareed, is we're not undertaxed as americans. we overspend. i think everybody would agree we overspend. that's why we have this debt to gdp over 100%. fars as the eye can see, absence poultcy changes. whatever you do, you first have to agree what the
giev tot face the fiscal cliff that's coming in a couple of weeks. >> so you know what both sides are saying. the president is saying there's no way to make the math work without raising the rates for the top income earners and that the republicans should give in on this. >> yeah, yeah. >> do you think he's right? >> well, i understand that position. that was the position he took during the campaign. but what has to happen in my view, you've got to have everything on the...
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ceiling and decided to roll a debt ceiling extension in to the fiscal cliff deal whatever they end up striking here and seems to me acknowledging republicans have leverage with cpi and talking about raising the medicare age. my question to you as a progressive is, republicans want something big. is there any big concessions you can see acceptable? >> new york city i really can't. and the kind of things we are talking about, even if they're not -- may not be acceptable to me ever but talking about a version of the changed cpi, the president already said social security is off the table because it is not driving the deficit. that's kind of weird. changes to medicare eligibility again or changes to medicare payments or whatever, it's really complicated to negotiate but i have to say i agree with you, steve. i'm -- i wish that the president hadn't taken the 14th amendment off the table because we're all saying, well, nothing should be off the table. why is that off the table and even if it's tough thing to pull off in the long run? i think that this mania for a fiscal cliff deal is distur
ceiling and decided to roll a debt ceiling extension in to the fiscal cliff deal whatever they end up striking here and seems to me acknowledging republicans have leverage with cpi and talking about raising the medicare age. my question to you as a progressive is, republicans want something big. is there any big concessions you can see acceptable? >> new york city i really can't. and the kind of things we are talking about, even if they're not -- may not be acceptable to me ever but...
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cliff is a stimulus program, rather stimulus by further tax cut but a 98 percent or for 100 percent, whether stimulus by extending the payroll --. >>neil: where is the stimulus in extending rates that are already there. >>guest: why, why, why are economists saying we could have a recession without dealing with the cliff live? by taking so much money out of the market by people who would be spending it or by cutting government spending, either by too large an increase in taxes or by too large a cut in government spending, they are saying that would reverse the economic recovery. the whole package was packaged. >>neil: let me ask where we stand now. i wanted to cut to the chase, and whether you think a deal will be done and what it will look like. >>guest: we will do a deal and we will do a deal that week between christmas and new years, so, i have made a proposal today that i hope can resolve the question of the debt ceiling. when congress authorizes appropriations bills we should authorize at that point whatever spending is necessary. if we are going to order from the menu we have to
cliff is a stimulus program, rather stimulus by further tax cut but a 98 percent or for 100 percent, whether stimulus by extending the payroll --. >>neil: where is the stimulus in extending rates that are already there. >>guest: why, why, why are economists saying we could have a recession without dealing with the cliff live? by taking so much money out of the market by people who would be spending it or by cutting government spending, either by too large an increase in taxes or by...
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what the fiscal cliff come essentially if you don't know what is going to happen, it is pretty good to have the fed to say we will continue to inject liquidity into the market, we are not as concerned about the market and we will make certain economic growth continues right now. liz: when does it stop, eugene? it just seems like it'll be very hard to exudate ourselves from the pillow read the half-life is really running out, it is like a heroine addict, you're not you t getting the same path. >> i would agree with you, easy money is very attractive, but there is no one logic. some of the confusion, look at the companies accelerating their dividend payment, there's only one thing, corporation balance sheets are strong, they have the cash to support. that could have been used for investment and they still think once we could get some clarity around what the tax scenario is going to be, we get some clarity on what fiscal policy is going to be, corporations will begin to reinvest again. david: as you just said essentially what ben bernanke just did was give the politicians a free pass. tha
what the fiscal cliff come essentially if you don't know what is going to happen, it is pretty good to have the fed to say we will continue to inject liquidity into the market, we are not as concerned about the market and we will make certain economic growth continues right now. liz: when does it stop, eugene? it just seems like it'll be very hard to exudate ourselves from the pillow read the half-life is really running out, it is like a heroine addict, you're not you t getting the same path....
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ceilings that are no longer automatically increased, fiscal cliffs and sequestrations. what we're having is an american political system that can't work without having a gun put at its own head. it may not work. and then what's so worrying is every single businessman i know says what do we need? predictability, some sense of where the economy's going to be in six months or a year. what are the rules going to be so we can make basic decisions about investment. everything we're seeing in washington now is working against building this kind of predictability into the american political system which is going exactly against what it is we need. so even if we get through the cliff, then we've got the debt ceiling vote february and then future cliffs. the system is so broken here. what we're seeing is no ability just to legislate as a normal process. >> and this is, as you guys were talking about before we went on the show this morning, mika, this is just the first act. >> yeah. >> this is just the first act, and it sets up a lot of other things. >> david henniger, the real qu
ceilings that are no longer automatically increased, fiscal cliffs and sequestrations. what we're having is an american political system that can't work without having a gun put at its own head. it may not work. and then what's so worrying is every single businessman i know says what do we need? predictability, some sense of where the economy's going to be in six months or a year. what are the rules going to be so we can make basic decisions about investment. everything we're seeing in...
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simpson, if we go up the fiscal cliff simpsons are hit the hardest. the taxes go up 9,000%. writers of the simpson, the taxes will skyrocket. this isn't a joke. >> bob: you are right. but this is not going to happen. there is adjustment to social security. real cuts. >> eric: you know what -- >> bob: can i say something? >> eric: you add ornaments to add things. in obama added this little thing the other day. he said i don't want a debt ceiling or bound like it going for it. debt doesn't matter. >> bob: respond to the social security thing. >> eric: obama in october of 2008 before he was president obama. season. >> the way bush has done it, over the last eight years is to take out a credit cardback of china in the game of the children, driving up the national debt. that is irresponsible and unpatriotic. >> eric: unpatriotic. $5 trillion in debt. president obama will add ten, 11, 12 trillion in debt. when he is done with this. >> for years, president obama running when he was senator, running for president always said that the bush tax cuts were only for the rich and only ben
simpson, if we go up the fiscal cliff simpsons are hit the hardest. the taxes go up 9,000%. writers of the simpson, the taxes will skyrocket. this isn't a joke. >> bob: you are right. but this is not going to happen. there is adjustment to social security. real cuts. >> eric: you know what -- >> bob: can i say something? >> eric: you add ornaments to add things. in obama added this little thing the other day. he said i don't want a debt ceiling or bound like it going for...
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how did we get to the fiscal cliff, it's not only the tax increase from the affordable care act that started january 1st, it happened in the last lame duck punted into this one and the last summer budget negotiation punted into this one. we'll get real cuts equal to what we're doing in debt ceiling increase and if we want to resolve that the best time is right now because we have another debt ceiling increase coming. >> you've told "the new york times" you think your party is boxed in. i want to read from "washington times" "republican leaders struggled tuesday to contain the backlash from conservatives of the gop's offer of $800 billion in tax increases to head off the fiscal cliff, a move that didn't impress the white house even as it spawned a rebellion on the right." so are republicans going to have to give on raising rates? >> no. we're not, because where the president is focused in on is the affordable care act taxes they increase january the 1st on people making $200,000 or more. the president wants a rate increase coming in january on people making $200,000 or more and go int
how did we get to the fiscal cliff, it's not only the tax increase from the affordable care act that started january 1st, it happened in the last lame duck punted into this one and the last summer budget negotiation punted into this one. we'll get real cuts equal to what we're doing in debt ceiling increase and if we want to resolve that the best time is right now because we have another debt ceiling increase coming. >> you've told "the new york times" you think your party is...
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cliff negotiations that. is something that the republicans have to deal with. and i think the republicans and making sure that the debt ceiling is extended for a long time because the one thing that could hurt the economy even more than going off some curb or cliff or slope is if we had a rep tilgs of the debt ceiling battle that we had in 2011. >> so in your view right now, you think that we're past -- potentially past the tax reform question? it's about not the stimulus money but the debt ceiling negotiation and it's important because many communities are not impacted by private sector job growth and need the public sector jobs that the stimulus would bring. >> yes. i think that, you know, you can't declare something done until it's done. but i think all of the signals you're getting from the republicans is that they realize that the last thing they need to be doing right now is to look like they are holding up middle class tax cuts to protect tax cuts for the very wealthy. that's not where they want to be
cliff negotiations that. is something that the republicans have to deal with. and i think the republicans and making sure that the debt ceiling is extended for a long time because the one thing that could hurt the economy even more than going off some curb or cliff or slope is if we had a rep tilgs of the debt ceiling battle that we had in 2011. >> so in your view right now, you think that we're past -- potentially past the tax reform question? it's about not the stimulus money but the...
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once we get past this first agreement and we avoid the fiscal cliff, we get into next year, there will be a debt limit fight, that might be less intense if they can get through this one. and the republicans will come up with a new way to talk about big spending cuts in return for some entithe entitlement changes. >> ben, thank you for stopping by. >> thank you. >> this morning, i was thinking to myself, self, if we get a deal, what would the market reaction be to a deal? >> that isn't -- >> because you can really make the case for either way, a selloff or a rally. >> i think the way the market sets up right now, the fact that we continue to sort of push towards this 14 and a quarter level leads me to believe that people are believing there's a deal that's some what imminent and we're going to rachet our way up. but my push-back would be, i mean, a deal, it's not buy their. my sense is, u.s. going forward, whatever deal is made there are going to be serious cuts to serious things. though a deal -- a deal that comes out in terms of the media, it's going to be positive for the market. the
once we get past this first agreement and we avoid the fiscal cliff, we get into next year, there will be a debt limit fight, that might be less intense if they can get through this one. and the republicans will come up with a new way to talk about big spending cuts in return for some entithe entitlement changes. >> ben, thank you for stopping by. >> thank you. >> this morning, i was thinking to myself, self, if we get a deal, what would the market reaction be to a deal?...
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with the fiscal cliff pr campaign. he is meeting with a middle class family in northern virginia, and the white house says the president is going to talk about his efforts to extend tax cuts for the middle class as part of this debt deal. well, some economists are predicting that the country will go into another recession if this debt deal is not reached. any deal that the lawmakers and white house come up with is also going to have a major impact, so joining us to talk a little bit about it, peter morrissey. he is a business professor at the university of maryland, and our own chief business xhnt ali velshi. you wrote something, an article here, predicting that these tax hikes, the spending cuts likely in the debt deal, could push unemployment, you believe, from 7.9% all the way to 10%. how so? >> well, simply it will cut spending in the economy. the wealthy will have less money to spend, but the government will likely be spending a lot less money as well because the republicans are going to want spending cuts. you co
with the fiscal cliff pr campaign. he is meeting with a middle class family in northern virginia, and the white house says the president is going to talk about his efforts to extend tax cuts for the middle class as part of this debt deal. well, some economists are predicting that the country will go into another recession if this debt deal is not reached. any deal that the lawmakers and white house come up with is also going to have a major impact, so joining us to talk a little bit about it,...
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this is the same fiscal crisis of the debt ceiling that caused the fiscal cliff and i don't think we'll be seeing the end of any crisis any time soon so if washington, d.c., wants to play lucy holding the football, we as the american people don't have to play charlie brown charging at it every time and the way to do that is to look at our challenges much differently, not as polarized hyperpartisanship as how much or how little government we throw at the challenges but as a marketplace of innovation. you talked about that before. if you look at our society as a bunch of civic outcomes, you can see actually how we're doing quite well, extremely well moving forward on all sorts of things, so soledad -- >> it doesn't feel like that. i was just reporting that the fiscal cliff does not seem to be any closer and we hear the clock ticking. >> posturing most of it. >> i agree. >> it's posturing for the most part. >> i despise the boxes, that is you're either in a blue box or red box. what's the issue we're talking about. to the whole point about citizens when people say we are going to get invol
this is the same fiscal crisis of the debt ceiling that caused the fiscal cliff and i don't think we'll be seeing the end of any crisis any time soon so if washington, d.c., wants to play lucy holding the football, we as the american people don't have to play charlie brown charging at it every time and the way to do that is to look at our challenges much differently, not as polarized hyperpartisanship as how much or how little government we throw at the challenges but as a marketplace of...
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they told me the idea is while the president can permit the economy to fall over the fiscal cliff, or curb, whatever you want to call it, he can't allow us to default on our debt. that would, like, destroy the economy. that gives republicans a stronger hand or so they think. but really, think about that. here's how it would go. later this month, republicans would, by voting present, which everyone would think was a bit weird, permit the bush tax cuts to expire for income over $250,000. that would let president obama pocket $1 trillion in tax revenue and secure a win on his key priority in the talks. but they would do nothing else. at the end of the year, we would still go over the fiscal cliff. remember, the bush tax cuts are one of the at least stimulative policies in the negotiations. according to the economic policy institute, extending the middle class tax cuts would wipe out only about 11% of the austerity's economic impact. 11%. but all that other stuff, the payroll tax cut, the unemployment insurance, the sequester, all that, that would still be expiring. so come early next yea
they told me the idea is while the president can permit the economy to fall over the fiscal cliff, or curb, whatever you want to call it, he can't allow us to default on our debt. that would, like, destroy the economy. that gives republicans a stronger hand or so they think. but really, think about that. here's how it would go. later this month, republicans would, by voting present, which everyone would think was a bit weird, permit the bush tax cuts to expire for income over $250,000. that...